BA Podcast #84: Amina Claudine Myers!
Spiritual jazz, the AACM, and more
The 2024 “season” of the Burning Ambulance podcast continues…
Our first episode of the year featured a conversation with pianist Ethan Iverson, the second was an encounter with bassist Rufus Reid, the third featured modular synth composer Arushi Jain, the fourth offered an interview with saxophonist Kenny Garrett, and in the fifth, I talked to noted percussionist, producer, and all-around L.A. scene guy Carlos Niño. This month, I offer you an interview with pianist, composer, and singer Amina Claudine Myers. Click to listen.
Ms. Myers is a fascinating and unique figure in jazz. She was one of the earliest members of the AACM. (For those who don’t know, the Association for the Advancement of Creative Musicians is an organization formed by Muhal Richard Abrams, Roscoe Mitchell and a few other musicians in Chicago in the 1960s and which continues to this day. A tremendous number of the most important avant-garde jazz musicians of the mid to late 20th century and the 21st century have come out of the AACM, including Anthony Braxton, Henry Threadgill, Fred Anderson, the Art Ensemble of Chicago, Wadada Leo Smith, Matana Roberts, Nicole Mitchell, Tomeka Reid, and Amina Claudine Myers.)
The members of the AACM all worked together, supporting each other, and insisted on moving the music forward by composing and performing original work. What’s interesting — and this is something we talk about in this conversation — is that Amina Claudine Myers’ early albums included some original music, but they also showcased interpretations of other people’s compositions, specifically Marion Brown and Bessie Smith. But she always paired that music up with pieces of her own that demonstrated a really fascinating voice that was a combination of jazz, gospel, blues, and classical music. She took all her influences and early training and combined it into something that sounded like nobody else out there, and was incredibly powerful. And she sings, too.
I’m really glad I had the chance to interview Amina Claudine Myers. We talked about a lot of things — the AACM, the role of spirituality in music and the way the term “spiritual jazz” is used to gatekeep certain things, her work with Henry Threadgill and Anthony Braxton and Muhal Richard Abrams and Kalaparusha Maurice McIntyre and her new album, which is a collection of duos with Wadada Leo Smith, her upbringing in Arkansas and Texas... this is a really wide-ranging conversation that I think will be really interesting for you to hear. I thank you as always for listening.
We’ve also got the latest episode of Such Music for you this week. Hosted by Rihards Endriksons, journalist and artistic director of Latvia’s Skaņu Mežs festival, Such Music is devoted to new works of free improvised music, either previously unheard or created specifically for the show. As of March 2023, the show is produced in collaboration with Burning Ambulance.
This month’s episode offers exclusive early previews of upcoming albums by Ellen Christi and William Parker, as well as Adam Rudolph and Tyshawn Sorey. Christi and Parker’s comically titled Cereal Music features the voices of both, and is characterized by a peculiar “everyday” warmth — it will be out this month. Meanwhile, Rudolph and Sorey’s Archaisms I and II, which will be officially out by the time you’re reading this, features spacious drum and percussion duos as well as quintet pieces. On this episode, you’ll hear their duo.
The show also features the music of The Recedents (comprised of Lol Coxhill, Mike Cooper and this show’s “beloved drummer” Roger Turner), with an exciting live piece from 1993, as well as solo music from Welsh violinist Angharad Davies and saxophonists Chris Pitsiokos and Jonas Engel. Listen on Mixcloud.
Here’s the link to the podcast again, and here’s an excerpt from my conversation with Amina Claudine Myers:
I’m wondering if you could talk to me about the availability of personal expression within church music. Like, you’re supposed to be serving the message of God, but there’s also room for self-expression. So as a player, how do you strike that balance within sacred music?
Well, first of all, when I first started playing, you know, I was emulating the gospel singers that were popular, especially during the classic gospel period of the ’50s. You know, I was — they were very influential on what I did. So I would teach the songs according to what I heard. So in later years, I started writing songs. They weren’t gospel songs. For instance, like one was “Do You Want to Be Saved?” I played that in the clubs, I also played it in church. Because it’s, you know, it’s an open type of song. Not necessarily a gospel song. Not necessarily a rhythm and blues song. Then in later years I wrote “Call Him,” which is gospel. And a few of the compositions in just expressing about the, I would say the spiritual realm of gospel music to thinking about the spirituality which the music entails, and also by me believing in the creator, I believe that — so I write songs that’s giving praise to God, to the creator. And just seeing how many names various religions have — their names for the creator. And it’s all, to me, it’s all the same god, just different names. And my self-expression in the music is more or less expressing how I feel about God.
What do you think... because lately, you know, the term spiritual jazz has gotten a lot of — is coming back in a big way. A lot of people are using that phrase to describe music, and I often feel like they’re really only using it to describe non-Western spirituality, like jazz musicians who take from Indian music or take from Middle Eastern music or something like that. Whereas someone like yourself who works — you know, who crosses that border between jazz and church music, doesn’t get put into that same category, even though there’s a very strong spiritual element to your music. So I’m wondering what you think about all that.
Well, I don’t know what’s going on as far as the music scene, as far as the spiritual, or the Christian music, but I mean, the music has always been there. It’s just progressing. Because I’m more or less in the traditional — I’m in the tradition of gospel music. Now, the music, it can be, part “I’m gonna have jazz chords” and it’s altogether different. The writing is different now. Singing the music and have dance moves to the music. So it’s progressed to another level but it’s still praising the creator to me. And so everything — I mean the music, I don’t make any comments about it because I mean, it’s forward, this is where it is now. Although I don’t come from this generation, from the type of music that I hear… I mean, I like it because it’s still praising the creator. And so it’s just different now — it’s different. Now what was your question again?
I was just noticing that, you know, when people use the phrase spiritual jazz they tend to leave Christianity out of it in a way, you know what I mean? And it’s like, but that’s spiritual music just as well, you know, gospel music is and you know what you’re doing, blending gospel and jazz, is very much spiritual music, but it doesn’t get discussed in the same way.
Right. Because I think spiritual, you know, I mean, there are people that are spiritual that don’t go to church. They don’t belong to church, but they have the spirit. They have love in their hearts for all creations of the creator. They have love for themselves and for others and for, you know, have a positive attitude on life and try to live according to — live with love. And that’s to me, that’s what spirituality is. Having respect for everything that’s been created, you know, in this world and not mistreat people and, you know, just live a life of positivity and love for all creations. To me, that’s what — it doesn’t mean that you had to sit down, have dinner with them or anything, but you have respect for what’s created here in this world. And you believe in a, I would say a higher power. The existence of — let me see, how can I put it? I would say the creator that has — it depends, too, on that person’s belief. Like I say, you don’t have to go to church to be spiritual. You don’t have to. You know, you can be a poor man out in the street. No money or nothing and be very spiritual.
One last thing before I go: I wrote a guide to D-beat hardcore for the Shfl. Crank it up!
That’s it for now. See you next week!
Great to see meyers, an old fave of mine, getting some late life attention.